“Why would you want to be part of an atheist group? To just sit around and bitch about religious people all the time? Doesn't that make you just as bad as the religious people you complain about; the ones who run down atheists?”
This was the question posed to me by my husband when he first learned about an online atheist parenting forum I was posting to. He is one of those "I-know-what-I-believe-so-why-do-I-want-to-bother-talking-about-it" variety of atheist (or apatheist). His question seemed ridiculous to me at first, because of course that wasn't the point of the forum. It did, however, make me think more about the nature of organized atheist groups.
I've mentioned in the past that the “Us vs. Them” mentality I've encountered in churches was one of the things I really disliked about organized religion. The attitude I've seen in every church I've attended (either as a member or as a guest) is that they are right and others who don't think and believe as they do (even other Christians) are wrong or misguided or unenlightened. I've listened to a Catholic deacon laugh about “the Protestants we get in here sometimes who just don't know WHAT they're doing” and I've listened to a Lutheran pastor talk about how wrong Catholics are because they take Jesus' saving grace out of the equation when it comes to how we get into heaven. I've seen Lutherans deny other Lutherans privileges of church service (like receiving communion) because they were the wrong type of Lutheran (ELCA instead of Missouri Synod). And of course all the mainstream Christians laugh at the ridiculousness of Mormon doctrine, telling of the wonders of “magic underwear” and a prophet reading magic plates in a hat (as if these things appear any more absurd to an outsider than their own religious dogma). In the last election, I received e-mail forwards from a Catholic friend that had links to a church leader who suggested only Catholics should be allowed to vote, because only Catholics were really following the true wishes of God. I could go on and on and on....
My point is that the underlying current in organized religions in general (and Christianity specifically) is that its adherents are following the One True Path. Whether it's stated explicitly or just implied, it's always there. It was part of why I gave up on the idea of organized religion quite a while before I completely gave up the last vestiges of belief in a supernatural creator. So my husband's question really made me think...in joining an organized group of atheists and agnostics, was I walking into yet another organization that was going to perpetuate that “Us vs. Them” mentality?
My point is that the underlying current in organized religions in general (and Christianity specifically) is that its adherents are following the One True Path. Whether it's stated explicitly or just implied, it's always there. It was part of why I gave up on the idea of organized religion quite a while before I completely gave up the last vestiges of belief in a supernatural creator. So my husband's question really made me think...in joining an organized group of atheists and agnostics, was I walking into yet another organization that was going to perpetuate that “Us vs. Them” mentality?
A big part of my participation in these groups (from online forums to groups like the local CFI chapter, and taking my oldest son to a freethinking, secular Sunday School) has to do with comaraderie. In a society that is dominated by religiosity; where non-believers are either vilified or labeled as the “unsaved” (and then subjected to endless proselytizing); where “the Christian thing to do” is synonymous with “the right thing to do”; where “God and Country” are inseparable, and people believe you can't be a “true American” if you don't believe in God...it is nice to find like-minded people. People who truly get it. People with whom I can discuss my problems and not have to worry about being fed a well-intentioned but meaningless, "God doesn't give you more than He knows you can handle." People with whom I can discuss science literacy and education, and not have debates about teaching creationism in school. To just be surrounded by people who are like me. To be fair, I do occasionally bitch about religious people...but only if they've been in my face about something. Like my neighbors who send their kids over to read to me from the Bible while I'm raking leaves in the front yard. But that is not what being part of the group is all about.
On the other hand, in surrounding myself with like-minded people, do I run the risk of becoming (as Dale McGowan so appropriately coined) siloed? Perhaps there is an inevitable “Us vs. Them” current that runs through a community; particularly a community of people who feel like they have been treated unfairly; who feel like a singled-out minority. Maybe it does make the differences more obvious.
So what do you think? Do organized atheist/agnostic/freethought groups foster an “Us vs. Them” view of the world in the same way that churches and other religious organizations do?
So what do you think? Do organized atheist/agnostic/freethought groups foster an “Us vs. Them” view of the world in the same way that churches and other religious organizations do?
Great question, Erin! I've wondered that myself occasionally, but I'm left scratching my head. I feel like there's a difference, somehow, in the fact that atheist groups don't involve any sort of doctrine or clergy. Also, if an atheist group inspires any sort of activism, it tends toward creating a level playing field for all of us. Whereas Christian/Church encouraged activism tends toward creating a field where only Christians--and the right ones at that--are allowed to play. So, right or wrong, I feel like there's a bit of a sinister undertone to religious groups versus atheist groups. Great post! :)
ReplyDeleteSometimes. But I agree with you - that's not really their purpose (usually). Sometimes it just happens, like it just happens with any group of people gathering together for anything.
ReplyDeleteANY group you belong to has this potential. The only difference is the definition of the "us" and the "them." The mentality, I think, tends to be more fostered by particular personalities rather than the community itself. Some people just like to bitch, and you see this in their interaction in many venues. The occasional vent among people who aren't like this is likely to lead to a combination of commiseration AND solutions. That's what I've found.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest difference for me is that in the online atheist forums I belong to, nobody has ever told me I am the "wrong" kind of atheist. I am simply the atheist I want to be and all of you seem to be okay with that. If that ever changed in the future and I started being attacked for allowing my daughter to attend church regularly, or being attacked because of the myriad of things I see differently than the other atheists in my community, I would leave because being attacked is being attacked whether it comes from outside the community you are choosing to be a part of or inside.
ReplyDeleteAnswering your question though, Us vs. Them mentality is human nature, its all in how you choose to act on it that truly determines the positive or negative impact it has on yourself and those around you.
The atheist groups I participate in are fundamentally different from religion in that there is no dogma and no authority, either human or otherwise, handing down pronouncements. What we do have in common with church groups is a sense of community.
ReplyDeleteI think it is human nature to desire community and to be perhaps a little suspicious of those outside of our group. Most atheists, having experienced being in a persecuted minority, are careful to not do the same to other people though and the groups I've participated in seldom have a hateful tone.
You make some excellent points. And Melanie and Janie, I totally agree that a certain amount of this is human nature. We are a "tribal" species, and it makes sense that we want to have a tribe of like-minded members. It feels good to fit in. In the groups where I belong, it feels more like extended family (you all are my "tribe"). I also steer clear of groups that turn out to be nothing but "religion-bashing" for its own sake.
ReplyDeleteAnd in my experience, the atheists I know have (in general) been much more accepting of people of faith than the other way around. And in our CFI Sunday School, one of the main topics of conversation revolves around learning about different religions and accepting/respecting people who believe differently than we do. I never heard that kind of talk in church. They were more intent on feeling sorry for those who believed differently (and weren't keen on actually learning/teaching their kids about others' beliefs). Instead, their energy was focused on helping others (especially the "unsaved") see the One True Path. When you are intent on converting someone to your way of thinking, that's not very conducive to true acceptance. I have NEVER been part of an atheist community that has had a goal of turning all believers into atheists (though sometimes I think that many believers *think* that's what we atheists are doing).
All that said, I do think that I am more aware of the differences between myself and religious people in my community since I started hanging out with other freethinkers. Of course I don't know how much of that is due to the group and how much is due to my own evolving self-awareness (that would have come about whether I was in these groups or not).
Oh, and Sarah, I totally agree with you too. I have never been in a group where I was accused of being "the wrong kind of atheist." And we certainly come in a lot of different varieties. :-)
ReplyDeleteFor me, joining an online atheist community has provided relief from a feeing of isolation and feeling surrounded by disapproving and hostile fundamentalists, especially certain members of my who do not yet know of my non-religious choice (although they probably suspect). I feel confident posting comments in the online atheist groups knowing that, for the most part, I won't be attacked or fear retaliation of some kind. Having said that, I will point out that I was surprised that at least one topic on one atheist site brought out emotional responses, rather than reasoned ones, and that topic was vaccines. I'm sure flouride is another hot button, but nonetheless, it was my experience that free thinkers are not necessarily rational on at least those two topics. In fact, I was quite astonished that some atheists, aka free thinkers, posted rude, emotional, and hostile remarks to those who did not agree with them when discussing vaccines. For the most part, the atheist and free-thinking communities are very supportive of non-believers and tolerate different points of view.
ReplyDelete